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	<title>Comments for Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science</title>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by DK</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82974</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 01:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82974</guid>
		<description>Point taken. I neglected to notice the word &quot;most&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point taken. I neglected to notice the word &#8220;most&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by zbicyclist</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82972</link>
		<dc:creator>zbicyclist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 00:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82972</guid>
		<description>I just read an article based on the Pew report on response rates (which notes the response rate on telephone surveys is now 9%, down from 36% in 1997) also notes &quot;survey participants tended to be significantly more engaged in civic activity than those who do not participate, suggesting that telephone surveys could lead to overestimates of behaviour such as church attendance, contact with elected officials and attendance at campaign events.&quot;

http://www.research-live.com/4007408.article</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read an article based on the Pew report on response rates (which notes the response rate on telephone surveys is now 9%, down from 36% in 1997) also notes &#8220;survey participants tended to be significantly more engaged in civic activity than those who do not participate, suggesting that telephone surveys could lead to overestimates of behaviour such as church attendance, contact with elected officials and attendance at campaign events.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.research-live.com/4007408.article" rel="nofollow">http://www.research-live.com/4007408.article</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Wikipedia author confronts Ed Wegman by Deep Climate</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/wikipedia-author-confronts-ed-wegman/#comment-82965</link>
		<dc:creator>Deep Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 21:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15410#comment-82965</guid>
		<description>A parallel is being drawn ... but I can understand your confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A parallel is being drawn &#8230; but I can understand your confusion.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by zbicyclist</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82964</link>
		<dc:creator>zbicyclist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 21:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82964</guid>
		<description>4. Interesting result from Hadaway, et al. I was treating p(say you attend church &#124; don&#039;t attend church) as a constant, which results in near stability of the trend.  If anything, I would have thought the need for the socially desirable response would decline once church attendance declines as a social practice, and p(say you attend church &#124; don&#039;t attend church) would therefore decline.  But instead it increases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4. Interesting result from Hadaway, et al. I was treating p(say you attend church | don&#8217;t attend church) as a constant, which results in near stability of the trend.  If anything, I would have thought the need for the socially desirable response would decline once church attendance declines as a social practice, and p(say you attend church | don&#8217;t attend church) would therefore decline.  But instead it increases.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wikipedia author confronts Ed Wegman by Deep Climate</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/wikipedia-author-confronts-ed-wegman/#comment-82963</link>
		<dc:creator>Deep Climate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 21:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15410#comment-82963</guid>
		<description>For those having troble keeping up with Wegman and his protege Said, here&#039;s a list of the 5 main problematic works in the Wegman &amp; Said canon (with pointers to much discussion of each)

http://deepclimate.org/2011/10/04/said-and-wegman-2009-suboptimal-scholarship/#conclusion

Here&#039;s a complete discussion of the 2009 WIREs Comp Stat article by Said &amp; Wegman, &quot;Roadmap to Optimation&quot;

http://deepclimate.org/2011/10/04/said-and-wegman-2009-suboptimal-scholarship

And here&#039;s a discussion of the latest shenanigans, where the editors of WIREs Comp Stat allowed the authors to do over &quot;Roadmap&quot; and another article. Of course, it helps when the editors and authors are one and the same (or more precisely two and the same).

http://deepclimate.org/2012/03/16/wiley-coverup-complete-wegman-and-said-redo-hides-plagiarism-and-errors/

Then we have the curious duo of misconduct decisions at GMU, where the *same* text was considered plagiarism in one obscure paper, but not when copied into a related congressional report.

http://deepclimate.org/2012/02/22/gmu-contradictory-decisions-on-wegman-plagiarism-in-csda-but-not-in-congressional-report/

Here is small part of the congressional report (known as the Wegman Report) side-by-side with the Wikipedia article it was copied from (at least three text books were also copied), that was found *not* to be plagiarized by GMU. Cyan highlighted text is identical, with trivial changes in yellow.

http://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wegman-social-networks-v-2-1.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those having troble keeping up with Wegman and his protege Said, here&#8217;s a list of the 5 main problematic works in the Wegman &amp; Said canon (with pointers to much discussion of each)</p>
<p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2011/10/04/said-and-wegman-2009-suboptimal-scholarship/#conclusion" rel="nofollow">http://deepclimate.org/2011/10/04/said-and-wegman-2009-suboptimal-scholarship/#conclusion</a></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a complete discussion of the 2009 WIREs Comp Stat article by Said &amp; Wegman, &#8220;Roadmap to Optimation&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2011/10/04/said-and-wegman-2009-suboptimal-scholarship" rel="nofollow">http://deepclimate.org/2011/10/04/said-and-wegman-2009-suboptimal-scholarship</a></p>
<p>And here&#8217;s a discussion of the latest shenanigans, where the editors of WIREs Comp Stat allowed the authors to do over &#8220;Roadmap&#8221; and another article. Of course, it helps when the editors and authors are one and the same (or more precisely two and the same).</p>
<p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2012/03/16/wiley-coverup-complete-wegman-and-said-redo-hides-plagiarism-and-errors/" rel="nofollow">http://deepclimate.org/2012/03/16/wiley-coverup-complete-wegman-and-said-redo-hides-plagiarism-and-errors/</a></p>
<p>Then we have the curious duo of misconduct decisions at GMU, where the *same* text was considered plagiarism in one obscure paper, but not when copied into a related congressional report.</p>
<p><a href="http://deepclimate.org/2012/02/22/gmu-contradictory-decisions-on-wegman-plagiarism-in-csda-but-not-in-congressional-report/" rel="nofollow">http://deepclimate.org/2012/02/22/gmu-contradictory-decisions-on-wegman-plagiarism-in-csda-but-not-in-congressional-report/</a></p>
<p>Here is small part of the congressional report (known as the Wegman Report) side-by-side with the Wikipedia article it was copied from (at least three text books were also copied), that was found *not* to be plagiarized by GMU. Cyan highlighted text is identical, with trivial changes in yellow.</p>
<p><a href="http://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wegman-social-networks-v-2-1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wegman-social-networks-v-2-1.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 6 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by tom campbell-ricketts</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-6-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82962</link>
		<dc:creator>tom campbell-ricketts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 21:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15420#comment-82962</guid>
		<description>Question 1 turned out to be a nice example for something I was putting together about &lt;a href=&quot;http://maximum-entropy-blog.blogspot.com/2012/05/nuisance-parameters.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;nuisance parameters&lt;/a&gt;, which I just put up. 

Just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question 1 turned out to be a nice example for something I was putting together about <a href="http://maximum-entropy-blog.blogspot.com/2012/05/nuisance-parameters.html" rel="nofollow">nuisance parameters</a>, which I just put up. </p>
<p>Just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration <img src='http://andrewgelman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Joey</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82956</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 20:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82956</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m completely naive about the subject, but I&#039;m curious about the following: does what counts as the best model interact at all with the amount of time you look at?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m completely naive about the subject, but I&#8217;m curious about the following: does what counts as the best model interact at all with the amount of time you look at?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Question 6 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys &#171; Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82954</link>
		<dc:creator>Question 6 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys &#171; Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 20:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82954</guid>
		<description>[...] yesterday: 5. Which of the following better describes changes in public opinion on most issues? (Choose only [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] yesterday: 5. Which of the following better describes changes in public opinion on most issues? (Choose only [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by moss</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82952</link>
		<dc:creator>moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 19:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82952</guid>
		<description>I am gonna guess b?  That&#039;s the only one that makes intuitive sense to me based on my knowlege of how opinion on say, gay marriage, has changed over time. 

On the other hand I know the country has become more polarized over the years so not sure if B makes sense in light of that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am gonna guess b?  That&#8217;s the only one that makes intuitive sense to me based on my knowlege of how opinion on say, gay marriage, has changed over time. </p>
<p>On the other hand I know the country has become more polarized over the years so not sure if B makes sense in light of that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wikipedia author confronts Ed Wegman by Adrian</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/wikipedia-author-confronts-ed-wegman/#comment-82950</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 19:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15410#comment-82950</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m confused -- is the guy in the video really http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Wegman?  Was the plagiarized article published in a small town newspaper, or in Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Computational Statistics?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m confused &#8212; is the guy in the video really <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Wegman?" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Wegman?</a>  Was the plagiarized article published in a small town newspaper, or in Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Computational Statistics?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Phil</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82945</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82945</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s lots of polling data about lots of issues. If one of these models really does apply most of the time then I don&#039;t see what&#039;s subjective about the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s lots of polling data about lots of issues. If one of these models really does apply most of the time then I don&#8217;t see what&#8217;s subjective about the question.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82939</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 17:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82939</guid>
		<description>DK:

I aim to amaze.  Also, it&#039;s a political science class not a statistics class.  Also, the exam covers topics we&#039;d already discussed in class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DK:</p>
<p>I aim to amaze.  Also, it&#8217;s a political science class not a statistics class.  Also, the exam covers topics we&#8217;d already discussed in class.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by DK</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82937</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82937</guid>
		<description>My pick would be #3. Although I imagine all of this is very disputable and very probably not generalizable over all issues. So far, the degree of subjectivity on your exam questions is pretty amazing to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My pick would be #3. Although I imagine all of this is very disputable and very probably not generalizable over all issues. So far, the degree of subjectivity on your exam questions is pretty amazing to me.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A statistical research project:  Weeding out the fraudulent citations by Aeronautical Journals and their Impact Factors &#171; SanBal</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/a-statistical-research-project-weeding-out-the-fraudulent-citations/#comment-82891</link>
		<dc:creator>Aeronautical Journals and their Impact Factors &#171; SanBal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 05:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15381#comment-82891</guid>
		<description>[...] A statistical research project: Weeding out the fraudulent citations (andrewgelman.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A statistical research project: Weeding out the fraudulent citations (andrewgelman.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by anonymous</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82890</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 04:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82890</guid>
		<description>In this context &quot;better&quot; (i.e. vs best) makes me cringe, though the more I think about it the more it seems the better word to use however strange it sounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this context &#8220;better&#8221; (i.e. vs best) makes me cringe, though the more I think about it the more it seems the better word to use however strange it sounds.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A statistical research project:  Weeding out the fraudulent citations by John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/a-statistical-research-project-weeding-out-the-fraudulent-citations/#comment-82886</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mashey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 01:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15381#comment-82886</guid>
		<description>&quot;what Wikipedia says&quot;  ahh yes:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/05/how-the-professor-who-fooled-wikipedia-got-caught-by-reddit/257134/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit&lt;/a&gt;

&#039;T. Mills Kelly encourages his students to deceive thousands of people on the Web. This has angered many, but the experiment helps reveal the shifting nature of the truth on the Internet.&#039;

This was at George Mason U.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;what Wikipedia says&#8221;  ahh yes:<br />
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/05/how-the-professor-who-fooled-wikipedia-got-caught-by-reddit/257134/" rel="nofollow">How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit</a></p>
<p>&#8216;T. Mills Kelly encourages his students to deceive thousands of people on the Web. This has angered many, but the experiment helps reveal the shifting nature of the truth on the Internet.&#8217;</p>
<p>This was at George Mason U.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A statistical research project:  Weeding out the fraudulent citations by Alex</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/a-statistical-research-project-weeding-out-the-fraudulent-citations/#comment-82884</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 00:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15381#comment-82884</guid>
		<description>Not sure if you or your readers know the story of Folia Phoniatrica et Logopaedica, which appears to be a worthy journal with a low impact factor.  In an editorial in 2007 (DOI: 10.1159/000108334), Schutte and Svec complained that the impact factor was forcing specialists not to publish with them but in more general journals, and &quot;as a reaction to this disturbing trend, the authors have decided to put together this review, which cites all the articles published in FPL within the last 2 years. This article is thus expected to considerably increase the impact factor of this journal and its ranking.&quot;  Lo, the impact factor doubled with that one article, but then Thomson Reuters noticed and suspended the journal&#039;s impact factor.  Or at least that&#039;s what wikipedia says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure if you or your readers know the story of Folia Phoniatrica et Logopaedica, which appears to be a worthy journal with a low impact factor.  In an editorial in 2007 (DOI: 10.1159/000108334), Schutte and Svec complained that the impact factor was forcing specialists not to publish with them but in more general journals, and &#8220;as a reaction to this disturbing trend, the authors have decided to put together this review, which cites all the articles published in FPL within the last 2 years. This article is thus expected to considerably increase the impact factor of this journal and its ranking.&#8221;  Lo, the impact factor doubled with that one article, but then Thomson Reuters noticed and suspended the journal&#8217;s impact factor.  Or at least that&#8217;s what wikipedia says.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A statistical research project:  Weeding out the fraudulent citations by John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/a-statistical-research-project-weeding-out-the-fraudulent-citations/#comment-82878</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mashey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 22:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15381#comment-82878</guid>
		<description>Of course, this is just one of various cases in which there is, in effect, some mechanically-computed reputational score that matters, and people try to find ways to game them.

Examples include Amazon reviews, Google page-rank (via link farms, the logical equivalent of this citation cartel thing).

I think the general message is that like any calculated statistics, one should always ask how it is computed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, this is just one of various cases in which there is, in effect, some mechanically-computed reputational score that matters, and people try to find ways to game them.</p>
<p>Examples include Amazon reviews, Google page-rank (via link farms, the logical equivalent of this citation cartel thing).</p>
<p>I think the general message is that like any calculated statistics, one should always ask how it is computed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82875</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 20:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82875</guid>
		<description>Dg:

That&#039;s right, the question is not self-contained.  It referred to one of the readings from our course during the semester.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dg:</p>
<p>That&#8217;s right, the question is not self-contained.  It referred to one of the readings from our course during the semester.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by dg</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-5-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82874</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 20:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15390#comment-82874</guid>
		<description>On question #4, you don&#039;t provide any idea of whether there&#039;s variation in the over-reporting. If the amount of over-reporting is constant, then there&#039;s no bias.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On question #4, you don&#8217;t provide any idea of whether there&#8217;s variation in the over-reporting. If the amount of over-reporting is constant, then there&#8217;s no bias.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys &#171; Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82869</link>
		<dc:creator>Question 5 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys &#171; Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 20:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82869</guid>
		<description>[...] yesterday: 4. Researchers have found that survey respondents overreport church attendance. Thus, naive [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] yesterday: 4. Researchers have found that survey respondents overreport church attendance. Thus, naive [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A statistical research project:  Weeding out the fraudulent citations by Bill Jefferys</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/a-statistical-research-project-weeding-out-the-fraudulent-citations/#comment-82859</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Jefferys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 18:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15381#comment-82859</guid>
		<description>I recently received the following from a colleague. Apparently some journals are trying to increase their impact factor by manipulating citations in articles submitted to them. This has never happened to me, and if it did, I would withdraw the paper and give the editor a piece of my mind. Anyway, here is what I received:

----

Please consider this actual example.  A scholar receives a letter from the managing editor of a journal saying his article has been accepted for publication.  Some time later, the author receives a follow-up letter from the senior editor of the same journal directing the author to add citations from his journal before publication.  Specifically the editor writes, “you only use one (name of my journal) source which is unacceptable. Please add at least five more relevant-(name of my journal) sources.” 
 
Notice that this citation request does not mention omitted content, insufficient attribution, or shortcomings in the manuscript’s analysis; it simply asks the authors to cite articles from the editor’s journal. 
 
This practice is controversial.  Some view it as inappropriate behavior, padding citations and diluting the value of the reference list.  Others see it as a legitimate way to introduce readers to past literature in the editor’s journal.  This study investigates this issue and we need your help.  Would you please take a moment to complete the following survey?—it will take only a few minutes.  If you consent to this survey just follow the link provided below. 
 
As required by our Institutional Review Board, individual identities will not be revealed or linked to specific responses.  IRB contact information:  irb@uah.edu
 
Thank you for your help.
 
Link to survey:  http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/QIZ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently received the following from a colleague. Apparently some journals are trying to increase their impact factor by manipulating citations in articles submitted to them. This has never happened to me, and if it did, I would withdraw the paper and give the editor a piece of my mind. Anyway, here is what I received:</p>
<p>&#8212;-</p>
<p>Please consider this actual example.  A scholar receives a letter from the managing editor of a journal saying his article has been accepted for publication.  Some time later, the author receives a follow-up letter from the senior editor of the same journal directing the author to add citations from his journal before publication.  Specifically the editor writes, “you only use one (name of my journal) source which is unacceptable. Please add at least five more relevant-(name of my journal) sources.” </p>
<p>Notice that this citation request does not mention omitted content, insufficient attribution, or shortcomings in the manuscript’s analysis; it simply asks the authors to cite articles from the editor’s journal. </p>
<p>This practice is controversial.  Some view it as inappropriate behavior, padding citations and diluting the value of the reference list.  Others see it as a legitimate way to introduce readers to past literature in the editor’s journal.  This study investigates this issue and we need your help.  Would you please take a moment to complete the following survey?—it will take only a few minutes.  If you consent to this survey just follow the link provided below. </p>
<p>As required by our Institutional Review Board, individual identities will not be revealed or linked to specific responses.  IRB contact information:  <a href="mailto:irb@uah.edu">irb@uah.edu</a></p>
<p>Thank you for your help.</p>
<p>Link to survey:  <a href="http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/QIZ" rel="nofollow">http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/QIZ</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 3 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Jeremy Miles</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-3-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82849</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 16:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15362#comment-82849</guid>
		<description>Which is remarkably similar to the answer reported by Gates in the answer blog entry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is remarkably similar to the answer reported by Gates in the answer blog entry.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 3 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Jeremy Miles</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-3-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82848</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 16:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15362#comment-82848</guid>
		<description>Another approach used in the RAND report &quot;Sexual Orientation and U.S. Military Personnel Policy
An Update of RAND&#039;s 1993 Study&quot; which can be found at: http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1056.html [Disclaimer: I work at RAND, and this was done by colleagues of mine).
They estimated the proportion of gays in the military by using the Add Health survey, of around 20,000 high school students who were asked about their sexual orientation when in high school, and then following them to see who joined the military.

From page 101:
&quot;... self-identified gay or bisexual individuals are currently (or have recently been) serving in the military at the same rates as their representation in the U.S. civilian population—3.7 percent. Among young men who have ever served in the military, 2.2 percent fall into our gay/bisexual category, compared with 3.2 percent of civilian men. In contrast, self-identified lesbian or bisexual women are more common among military personnel than in the civilian population of U.S. young adults—10.7 percent compared with 4.2 percent.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another approach used in the RAND report &#8220;Sexual Orientation and U.S. Military Personnel Policy<br />
An Update of RAND&#8217;s 1993 Study&#8221; which can be found at: <a href="http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1056.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1056.html</a> [Disclaimer: I work at RAND, and this was done by colleagues of mine).<br />
They estimated the proportion of gays in the military by using the Add Health survey, of around 20,000 high school students who were asked about their sexual orientation when in high school, and then following them to see who joined the military.</p>
<p>From page 101:<br />
&#8220;&#8230; self-identified gay or bisexual individuals are currently (or have recently been) serving in the military at the same rates as their representation in the U.S. civilian population—3.7 percent. Among young men who have ever served in the military, 2.2 percent fall into our gay/bisexual category, compared with 3.2 percent of civilian men. In contrast, self-identified lesbian or bisexual women are more common among military personnel than in the civilian population of U.S. young adults—10.7 percent compared with 4.2 percent.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on A statistical research project:  Weeding out the fraudulent citations by A statistical research project: Weeding out the fraudulent citations &#171; Stats in the Wild</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/a-statistical-research-project-weeding-out-the-fraudulent-citations/#comment-82847</link>
		<dc:creator>A statistical research project: Weeding out the fraudulent citations &#171; Stats in the Wild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 16:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15381#comment-82847</guid>
		<description>[...] A statistical research project: Weeding out the fraudulent citations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A statistical research project: Weeding out the fraudulent citations [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 3 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-3-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82845</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15362#comment-82845</guid>
		<description>QMS:

Thanks for the info.  Could you give the direct quote from the Statistics Canada guide?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>QMS:</p>
<p>Thanks for the info.  Could you give the direct quote from the Statistics Canada guide?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 3 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by QMS</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-3-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82844</link>
		<dc:creator>QMS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 15:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15362#comment-82844</guid>
		<description>Just to add to the pile, I also think that `d&#039; is a correct answer in many cases. For example, this is explicitly suggested in the survey guide compiled by Statistics Canada (and, I&#039;ve been told, by the guides put out by the main statistical agency in China). Of course, sometimes it is wrong, if the pilot is *really* tiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to add to the pile, I also think that `d&#8217; is a correct answer in many cases. For example, this is explicitly suggested in the survey guide compiled by Statistics Canada (and, I&#8217;ve been told, by the guides put out by the main statistical agency in China). Of course, sometimes it is wrong, if the pilot is *really* tiny.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Simon</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82842</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 15:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82842</guid>
		<description>My first reaction is to say that it should make no difference to the overall trend. It may look as though the figure has dropped from 80% to 70% over a set period of time, but if the reality is that it&#039;s dropped from 70% to 60% during that time, it doesn&#039;t matter.

But now that I think about it, I realise that it&#039;s more complicated than that. There will probably be a tipping point (or, more realistically, a series of tipping points in each sub-demographic) where people no longer feel the need to pretend that they&#039;re going to Church, and this will be linked very closely to how many people are actually going. If 70% of the public are going to Church, then there&#039;s a strong incentive for the other 20% to hint that they are as well. If 30% of the public are going, that incentive becomes much weaker for the non-Churchgoers.

This means that if Churchgoing fell from 70% to 20% over a long time frame at a consistent rate, it may well look as though the fall started off gently, then got much faster and then slowed down again even though the truth of the matter is that it had remained steady.

In other words, the over-reporting should have no impact on the DIRECTION of the trend, but may have a significant impact on the MAGNITUDE of the trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first reaction is to say that it should make no difference to the overall trend. It may look as though the figure has dropped from 80% to 70% over a set period of time, but if the reality is that it&#8217;s dropped from 70% to 60% during that time, it doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>But now that I think about it, I realise that it&#8217;s more complicated than that. There will probably be a tipping point (or, more realistically, a series of tipping points in each sub-demographic) where people no longer feel the need to pretend that they&#8217;re going to Church, and this will be linked very closely to how many people are actually going. If 70% of the public are going to Church, then there&#8217;s a strong incentive for the other 20% to hint that they are as well. If 30% of the public are going, that incentive becomes much weaker for the non-Churchgoers.</p>
<p>This means that if Churchgoing fell from 70% to 20% over a long time frame at a consistent rate, it may well look as though the fall started off gently, then got much faster and then slowed down again even though the truth of the matter is that it had remained steady.</p>
<p>In other words, the over-reporting should have no impact on the DIRECTION of the trend, but may have a significant impact on the MAGNITUDE of the trend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Simonini</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82841</link>
		<dc:creator>Simonini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 15:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82841</guid>
		<description>Even if a constant proportion of non-churchgoers report going to church, the fraction of the population that these non-churchgoers make up changes over time.  So yes, it will have an impact, although it could be large or small.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if a constant proportion of non-churchgoers report going to church, the fraction of the population that these non-churchgoers make up changes over time.  So yes, it will have an impact, although it could be large or small.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82840</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 14:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82840</guid>
		<description>No they just misinterpret them considerably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No they just misinterpret them considerably.</p>
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		<title>Comment on black and Black, white and White by Peter Flom</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/black-and-black-white-and-white/#comment-82828</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Flom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 11:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15118#comment-82828</guid>
		<description>Well, Negro and Caucasian would both be capitalized, wouldn&#039;t they?
European-American and African-American as well.
So, why not Black and White?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Negro and Caucasian would both be capitalized, wouldn&#8217;t they?<br />
European-American and African-American as well.<br />
So, why not Black and White?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Peter Flom</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82826</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Flom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 11:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82826</guid>
		<description>It depends on whether the over-reporting is constant or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends on whether the over-reporting is constant or not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by Priapus</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82824</link>
		<dc:creator>Priapus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 11:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82824</guid>
		<description>The proportion that are less than honest will be related to the proportion attending (social pressures, shame etc.) So yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proportion that are less than honest will be related to the proportion attending (social pressures, shame etc.) So yes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by conchis</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82822</link>
		<dc:creator>conchis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 10:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82822</guid>
		<description>Depends on what you think drives the overreporting. If overreporting is driven by societal expectations of attendance, then it may shrink as attendance falls, which would lead to an overstatement of the time-trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on what you think drives the overreporting. If overreporting is driven by societal expectations of attendance, then it may shrink as attendance falls, which would lead to an overstatement of the time-trend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by awm</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82814</link>
		<dc:creator>awm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 05:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82814</guid>
		<description>This depends on whether or not the level of overreporting has changed over time.  My guess would be that overreporting has increased, but this is an empirical question that I assume someone has looked into.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This depends on whether or not the level of overreporting has changed over time.  My guess would be that overreporting has increased, but this is an empirical question that I assume someone has looked into.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 3 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by DK</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-3-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82812</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 05:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15362#comment-82812</guid>
		<description>I am unhappy with your question #2. The answer relies too heavily on the implicit definition of &quot;pilot&quot;. In real world, &quot;pilot&quot; =/= small. Rather, &quot;pilot&quot; = &quot;something close to the max of what we can afford without sacrificing an ability to commit most of our resources in the future&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am unhappy with your question #2. The answer relies too heavily on the implicit definition of &#8220;pilot&#8221;. In real world, &#8220;pilot&#8221; =/= small. Rather, &#8220;pilot&#8221; = &#8220;something close to the max of what we can afford without sacrificing an ability to commit most of our resources in the future&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Steve Sailer</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82811</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 04:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82811</guid>
		<description>From Repo Man, on causality and probability:

&quot;A lot o&#039; people don&#039;t realize what&#039;s really going on. They view life as a bunch o&#039; unconnected incidents &#039;n things. They don&#039;t realize that there&#039;s this, like, lattice o&#039; coincidence that lays on top o&#039; everything. Give you an example, show you what I mean: suppose you&#039;re thinkin&#039; about a plate o&#039; shrimp. Suddenly someone&#039;ll say, like, &quot;plate,&quot; or &quot;shrimp,&quot; or &quot;plate o&#039; shrimp&quot; out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin&#039; for one, either. It&#039;s all part of a cosmic unconsciousness.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Repo Man, on causality and probability:</p>
<p>&#8220;A lot o&#8217; people don&#8217;t realize what&#8217;s really going on. They view life as a bunch o&#8217; unconnected incidents &#8216;n things. They don&#8217;t realize that there&#8217;s this, like, lattice o&#8217; coincidence that lays on top o&#8217; everything. Give you an example, show you what I mean: suppose you&#8217;re thinkin&#8217; about a plate o&#8217; shrimp. Suddenly someone&#8217;ll say, like, &#8220;plate,&#8221; or &#8220;shrimp,&#8221; or &#8220;plate o&#8217; shrimp&#8221; out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin&#8217; for one, either. It&#8217;s all part of a cosmic unconsciousness.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Steve Sailer</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82810</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 04:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82810</guid>
		<description>If average people weren&#039;t pretty decent at noticing probabilistic patterns, then Our Betters wouldn&#039;t constantly have to be lecturing us against stereotyping and profiling.

I will certainly admit that most people aren&#039;t very good at reasoning about probabilistic patterns (including the intellectuals who denounce stereotyping), but people are not at all bad at picking up statistical differences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If average people weren&#8217;t pretty decent at noticing probabilistic patterns, then Our Betters wouldn&#8217;t constantly have to be lecturing us against stereotyping and profiling.</p>
<p>I will certainly admit that most people aren&#8217;t very good at reasoning about probabilistic patterns (including the intellectuals who denounce stereotyping), but people are not at all bad at picking up statistical differences.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Question 4 of my final exam for Design and Analysis of Sample Surveys by zbicyclist</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/question-4-of-my-final-exam-for-design-and-analysis-of-sample-surveys/#comment-82807</link>
		<dc:creator>zbicyclist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 03:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15385#comment-82807</guid>
		<description>No.

The assumption is that p(say you attend church &#124; you don&#039;t) is reasonably constant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No.</p>
<p>The assumption is that p(say you attend church | you don&#8217;t) is reasonably constant.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Ely Spears</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82805</link>
		<dc:creator>Ely Spears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 03:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82805</guid>
		<description>I think you misunderstood me, but it was my fault for poor wording. I was thinking that if they interpreted the question conditionally, then they had to incorporate their prior belief. Since P(flood) = P(flood&#124; earthquake) * p(earthquake) + P(flood &#124; no EQ) * p(no EQ), then the first term, P(flood&#124; earthquake) * p(earthquake) must be \leq P(flood).

I was not talking about P(flood &#124; earthquake) in isolation, but I failed to make that clear. I agree that the statement of the problem should be made better so as to be very sure the subjects are not making this confusion, but as in my reply above to Daniel Lakeland, I think the classic Linda example shows this same artifact without nearly as much effect from wording. I&#039;m convinced, at least, that this is a real effect and that conjunction fallacy permeates evolved human cognition. I&#039;m fairly a nobody though, so my believing that doesn&#039;t count for much :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misunderstood me, but it was my fault for poor wording. I was thinking that if they interpreted the question conditionally, then they had to incorporate their prior belief. Since P(flood) = P(flood| earthquake) * p(earthquake) + P(flood | no EQ) * p(no EQ), then the first term, P(flood| earthquake) * p(earthquake) must be \leq P(flood).</p>
<p>I was not talking about P(flood | earthquake) in isolation, but I failed to make that clear. I agree that the statement of the problem should be made better so as to be very sure the subjects are not making this confusion, but as in my reply above to Daniel Lakeland, I think the classic Linda example shows this same artifact without nearly as much effect from wording. I&#8217;m convinced, at least, that this is a real effect and that conjunction fallacy permeates evolved human cognition. I&#8217;m fairly a nobody though, so my believing that doesn&#8217;t count for much <img src='http://andrewgelman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Ely Spears</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82804</link>
		<dc:creator>Ely Spears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 03:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82804</guid>
		<description>I see your point in this case. If the readers interpret it as allowing them to assume P(earthquake) = 1, then you&#039;re right. In my reading though, even if they interpret it conditionally, the temporal aspect of the question makes this the P=1 interpretation invalid.

P(flood follows earthquake within the next year) must be smaller than P(flood happens within the next year). There have been other experiments with this same setup but not involving the flood example. Some are listed in Kahneman&#039;s recent book, others are in the Kahneman/Tvsersky papers. Maybe one of them is to your liking. 

But even when the question has been more explicitly phrased as &quot;Is P(flood follows earthquake within the next year) greater than or less than P(flood happens within the next year)?&quot; people still report larger estimates for the first. Consider the famous &quot;Linda&quot; example, of being a bankteller who is a feminist vs. being just a bank teller. Even grad students of probability and stats ordered the probability of those events incorrectly: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy ).

In re-reading that article, it relates to this post&#039;s title in that Gigerenzer criticized the legitimacy of the Linda experiment. FWIW, I find Gigerenzer&#039;s criticisms lacking. He misses the point; it&#039;s not framing.. it&#039;s that humans substitute intuitive plausibility when needing to estimate probability, because intuitive plausibility is easier and our brains are empirically lazy. Conjunction fallacy is an example of the substitution effect, answering a different question because it requires less cognitive effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point in this case. If the readers interpret it as allowing them to assume P(earthquake) = 1, then you&#8217;re right. In my reading though, even if they interpret it conditionally, the temporal aspect of the question makes this the P=1 interpretation invalid.</p>
<p>P(flood follows earthquake within the next year) must be smaller than P(flood happens within the next year). There have been other experiments with this same setup but not involving the flood example. Some are listed in Kahneman&#8217;s recent book, others are in the Kahneman/Tvsersky papers. Maybe one of them is to your liking. </p>
<p>But even when the question has been more explicitly phrased as &#8220;Is P(flood follows earthquake within the next year) greater than or less than P(flood happens within the next year)?&#8221; people still report larger estimates for the first. Consider the famous &#8220;Linda&#8221; example, of being a bankteller who is a feminist vs. being just a bank teller. Even grad students of probability and stats ordered the probability of those events incorrectly: ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy</a> ).</p>
<p>In re-reading that article, it relates to this post&#8217;s title in that Gigerenzer criticized the legitimacy of the Linda experiment. FWIW, I find Gigerenzer&#8217;s criticisms lacking. He misses the point; it&#8217;s not framing.. it&#8217;s that humans substitute intuitive plausibility when needing to estimate probability, because intuitive plausibility is easier and our brains are empirically lazy. Conjunction fallacy is an example of the substitution effect, answering a different question because it requires less cognitive effort.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by David Huelsbeck</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82803</link>
		<dc:creator>David Huelsbeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 02:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82803</guid>
		<description>I think your analogy is better than Hastie&#039;s more convoluted narrative fallacy story while avoiding shortcomings that Andrew exposes. However, I think it could be incrementally improved by replacing the four-way with an uncontrolled intersection.

I agree that Hastie might have a political agenda, but it seems more likely that he is just capitalizing on the financial crisis to spruik his own work, even if it is only tangentially related. I&#039;m sure Booth has a PR office that tries to make opportunities for faculty to get their names into media outlets like Bloomberg. 

That said, I like Hastie&#039;s conclusion, but for an altogether different reason. I think that the various bad-actors narratives are appealing because they offer the false sense of security that we could all still be on the golden escalator to risk-free prosperity if not for those bad-actors. The (probably correct, in my opinion,) explanation, that the economy is extremely complex and vulnerable to catastrophic events that no one really understands, is too scary for most people. They&#039;d rather think that disasters are the work of angry gods that can be appeased by worship, sacrifice and punishment of the wicked. I don&#039;t think that wishing for human agency over that which is currently beyond our control is exactly the same as narrative fallacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your analogy is better than Hastie&#8217;s more convoluted narrative fallacy story while avoiding shortcomings that Andrew exposes. However, I think it could be incrementally improved by replacing the four-way with an uncontrolled intersection.</p>
<p>I agree that Hastie might have a political agenda, but it seems more likely that he is just capitalizing on the financial crisis to spruik his own work, even if it is only tangentially related. I&#8217;m sure Booth has a PR office that tries to make opportunities for faculty to get their names into media outlets like Bloomberg. </p>
<p>That said, I like Hastie&#8217;s conclusion, but for an altogether different reason. I think that the various bad-actors narratives are appealing because they offer the false sense of security that we could all still be on the golden escalator to risk-free prosperity if not for those bad-actors. The (probably correct, in my opinion,) explanation, that the economy is extremely complex and vulnerable to catastrophic events that no one really understands, is too scary for most people. They&#8217;d rather think that disasters are the work of angry gods that can be appeased by worship, sacrifice and punishment of the wicked. I don&#8217;t think that wishing for human agency over that which is currently beyond our control is exactly the same as narrative fallacy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82802</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 02:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82802</guid>
		<description>Sure, but their results are pretty robust.  And in their early experiments, in which they asked research psychologists various questions about sample size and statistical significance, they &lt;em&gt;weren&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; trying to fool people; they were asking straightforward statistics questions that just turned out to be difficult.  It took awhile before they abstracted their results down to some very clean &quot;cognitive illusions.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, but their results are pretty robust.  And in their early experiments, in which they asked research psychologists various questions about sample size and statistical significance, they <em>weren&#8217;t</em> trying to fool people; they were asking straightforward statistics questions that just turned out to be difficult.  It took awhile before they abstracted their results down to some very clean &#8220;cognitive illusions.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Steve Sailer</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82801</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 02:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82801</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but you&#039;re missing my point, which is that it&#039;s hardly surprising that Kahneman found that it&#039;s easy to fool people, because conmen and comedians have been doing it forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but you&#8217;re missing my point, which is that it&#8217;s hardly surprising that Kahneman found that it&#8217;s easy to fool people, because conmen and comedians have been doing it forever.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82797</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 01:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82797</guid>
		<description>Steve:

Your review is interesting, but, to be fair, many of the experiments of Kahneman, Tversky, and that crew are pretty bullet-proof.  They and their psychologist colleagues are well aware of Grice&#039;s principle and other issues involved in these measurements.  This is not to say that everything K&amp;T said was correct, but they did avoid a lot of the obvious flaws that a casual reader would think of.  Remember, this work has survived decades of peer review and replication.  Topics such as the availability heuristic have been studied all over the place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:</p>
<p>Your review is interesting, but, to be fair, many of the experiments of Kahneman, Tversky, and that crew are pretty bullet-proof.  They and their psychologist colleagues are well aware of Grice&#8217;s principle and other issues involved in these measurements.  This is not to say that everything K&#038;T said was correct, but they did avoid a lot of the obvious flaws that a casual reader would think of.  Remember, this work has survived decades of peer review and replication.  Topics such as the availability heuristic have been studied all over the place.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82796</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 01:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82796</guid>
		<description>What the hell . . . ?  On the other hand, it says &quot;The opinions expressed are his own.&quot;  At this point, it looks like bloomberg.com is just trolling.  I won&#039;t dignify this guy with a blog post, but if I were to write something, I might suggest a few alternative theories, such as the idea that this guy&#039;s big bucks are due to Ross Perot&#039;s big ears.  After all, if Perot had smaller ears, he probably would&#039;ve won the 1992 election, then no Bill Clinton, no tech boom, no budget surplus . . . and no free money available for the Bush tax cuts.  No Bush tax cuts mean that rich dudes (sorry, I mean &quot;investors&quot;) would have less extra $, probably after the country club memberships, Beemers, and rehab clinic fees they wouldn&#039;t have had the spare cash needed to prop up the stock market, then we would&#039;ve had the crash in 2004 instead of 2008, thus no housing bubble . . . hey, maybe we should&#039;ve all voted for Perot back then!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the hell . . . ?  On the other hand, it says &#8220;The opinions expressed are his own.&#8221;  At this point, it looks like bloomberg.com is just trolling.  I won&#8217;t dignify this guy with a blog post, but if I were to write something, I might suggest a few alternative theories, such as the idea that this guy&#8217;s big bucks are due to Ross Perot&#8217;s big ears.  After all, if Perot had smaller ears, he probably would&#8217;ve won the 1992 election, then no Bill Clinton, no tech boom, no budget surplus . . . and no free money available for the Bush tax cuts.  No Bush tax cuts mean that rich dudes (sorry, I mean &#8220;investors&#8221;) would have less extra $, probably after the country club memberships, Beemers, and rehab clinic fees they wouldn&#8217;t have had the spare cash needed to prop up the stock market, then we would&#8217;ve had the crash in 2004 instead of 2008, thus no housing bubble . . . hey, maybe we should&#8217;ve all voted for Perot back then!</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Steve Sailer</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82795</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 01:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82795</guid>
		<description>You should watch &quot;Repo Man&quot; more frequently. I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should watch &#8220;Repo Man&#8221; more frequently. I do.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Steve Sailer</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82794</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 01:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82794</guid>
		<description>&quot;What is the probability that an earthquake in California will be followed by a flood in the next year that drowns at least 1,000 Americans?”

When I was a Boy Scout during the 2/9/1971 Sylmar earthquake in California, we mobilized to help evacuate the west half of the San Fernando Valley because of fears that the Van Norman dam would collapse. 

In general, I find Kahneman&#039;s book pretty aspergery. My review is of the book is here:

http://takimag.com/article/the_irrational_agent/print#axzz1utcF9Nuo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What is the probability that an earthquake in California will be followed by a flood in the next year that drowns at least 1,000 Americans?”</p>
<p>When I was a Boy Scout during the 2/9/1971 Sylmar earthquake in California, we mobilized to help evacuate the west half of the San Fernando Valley because of fears that the Van Norman dam would collapse. </p>
<p>In general, I find Kahneman&#8217;s book pretty aspergery. My review is of the book is here:</p>
<p><a href="http://takimag.com/article/the_irrational_agent/print#axzz1utcF9Nuo" rel="nofollow">http://takimag.com/article/the_irrational_agent/print#axzz1utcF9Nuo</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82793</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 00:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82793</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry all, but this also got even worse. In the manner of freakonomics I give to you Roe V. Wade stimulates innovation:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-14/how-roe-v-wade-empowered-u-s-investors.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry all, but this also got even worse. In the manner of freakonomics I give to you Roe V. Wade stimulates innovation:<br />
<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-14/how-roe-v-wade-empowered-u-s-investors.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-14/how-roe-v-wade-empowered-u-s-investors.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on I hate to get all Gerd Gigerenzer on you here, but . . . by revo11</title>
		<link>http://andrewgelman.com/2012/05/i-hate-to-get-all-gerd-gigerenzer-on-you-here-but/#comment-82791</link>
		<dc:creator>revo11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 00:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewgelman.com/?p=15353#comment-82791</guid>
		<description>edit: &quot;you’d probably be correct&quot; -&gt; &quot;is probably correct&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>edit: &#8220;you’d probably be correct&#8221; -&gt; &#8220;is probably correct&#8221;</p>
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