> different views of how the world works

I see something like this as a major issue here – using assumptions as a way to represent a communal view of what the reality we are attempting to deal with is approximately versus making (minimal) assumptions that guarantee _good_ properties (e.g. unbiasedness) regardless of what reality is like as long as its in this sub-domain (e.g. approximately additive effects).

When you question good for what, in the fuller scientific process as well as different ways of evaluating the procedure’s repeated use properties – what was formally taken as good – ain’t necessarily so https://andrewgelman.com/2016/08/22/bayesian-inference-completely-solves-the-multiple-comparisons-problem/

It is also opposed to just representing one’s subjective view of the reality and being self consistent.

]]>But what really goes awry and often without anyone even blinking an eye, is the likelihood. Consider the difference between a likelihood in which you assume that “doing x causes y to have value z plus some random error of unknown magnitude” vs “doing x forces a change in a dynamic equilibrium so that y changes from whatever its value was, through time, via oscillation, until it eventually at the long time equilibrium achieves value z to within 1%”

Those are two really different views of how the world works. Plenty of times people analyze a situation where the second model is the appropriate one using the first model, and arrive at totally meaningless results, and if you focus on the prior for say the unknown magnitude in the random error, you’re missing the point entirely.

]]>It sounds like there is some confusion in what I meant by my item #3. I intend it to include assumptions that go into a prior as well as assumptions in the model that gives the likelihood.

]]>a. In many cases, the prior can (and therefore should) provide information that cannot be incorporated in the model giving the likelihood.

b. In many cases, there is empirical evidence that choice of prior has less effect on results than model assumptions that affect the likelihood — but this does need to be provided on a case to case basis; one also need to explicitly state what prior information is taken into account in choosing the prior.

#3 If the problem at hand is indeed binary or multi-choice discrete problem, then a method resulting in a binary or multi-choice decision is appropriate. But one does need to be careful that the real problem is indeed binary or multi-choice discrete — not just that that is what people want.

]]>#1 RCT’s were just one example to illustrate my point that one can’t say “Do this to get rigor”. Also, (in the example of RCT’s) there are lots of published abuses of the techniques — calling them “corner cases” misses the point that there are lots of misunderstandings of what makes a good RCT.

#2 I consider choice of prior to be an example of what I was talking about — so no contraction in what I said. But a little elaboration:

However, I will say that in many — not all — situations there is empirical evidence that choice of prior has less effect on results than model assumptions that affect the likelihood. In a specific case, checking )

I think what you write makes a lot of sense. So, I’d add that anecdotally in at least 50% of the applied problems, if not more, one does not have so much data that the role of the prior is insignificant.

And I think Bayesian proponents often downplay the importance of good quality priors to getting good model output.

]]>I hope this renders correctly.

]]>No, you may be right. I’m just trying to understand this better.

To restate: If the validity of conventional statistical techniques are strongly contingent on the correctness of the assumptions, then shouldn’t the validity of a Bayesian analysis also be contingent on the prior, which, in a way, is our “assumption” about the problem?

If not, why not?

]]>#1 Both of your points are absolutely factually true: There are tons of crappy RCTs.

But then again, we shouldn’t judge a tool or procedure by corner cases. Sure you can abuse and RCT. But then again, what technique is immune to misuse?

#2 Aren’t what you call assumptions very close or analogous to what constitutes priors? If yes, then why do we get people claiming that it doesn’t really matter much what prior you choose in most cases?

If you agree that ” one needs to consider carefully how well those assumptions fit the situation” how can one get away without carefully considering and choosing the right prior?

I sense a contradiction.

#3 On the other hand, to be useful, a technique must solve the problem at hand.

The problem at hand is very often a binary or at least a multi-option but discrete decision. Call it simplistic or what will you the fact is that the world is full of binary choices and people are looking for models / tools that will make these choices. Shying away from including decision analysis in your statistical toolkit is not the solution.

There’s a uptick in the number of structurally elegant tools, that purportedly add to our “understanding” of the phenomenon but are predictively useless.

]]>But I doubt that a two paragraph summary will do any good — since the devil is often in the details. Some partially-baked thoughts:

Some central ideas that need to be conveyed (probably not a complete list):

1.”One size does not fit all” — so it is impossible to give a list of *specific* points that will ensure rigor. Case in point: “randomized controlled trials” have been called “the gold standard” and given the handy abbreviation RCT’s — but as jrc mentions, you can get nonsense out of a good RCT by using in inappropriate statistical analysis. Analogously, you can have an RCT that is so poorly designed and carried out that no statistical analysis can get any meaningful information from it.

2. Every statistical technique depends on assumptions. So one needs to consider carefully how well those assumptions fit the situation where they are used. And they will rarely (if ever) fit exactly, so virtually any statistical analysis leaves some uncertainty in its appropriateness — in addition to all the other sources of uncertainty.

3. Statistical concepts are widely misunderstood — usually in the form of oversimplifying and expressing more certainty than is realistic.

All of these are difficult to convey to most people who use statistics (perhaps in part because of a common desire to have a list of “If I do these, it will be OK.”)

]]>But either way, not just by running some regressions and over-interpreting the combination of point-estimates and p-values to tell whatever story is palatable to our field and consistent with the pattern of stars in our results tables. Even if those point-etimates and p-values come from randomized trials or some other “rigorous” method.

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